20. Q: Some people are ready to lose their life and commit suicide. If the Self is the Form of bliss, how is it possible?
A: Some people are ready to loose their life and they try to give up their body and life thinking that these non-self – objects have created sorrow. They imagine that if they get rid of their troublesome body and life, then only they can take rest; and then they commit suicide. Therefore, let their life and body be sorrowful; and these non-self –objects are not the Self at all. Therefore, for the sake of their Self, they are ready to give up their much attached body and life. Hence, it is proved that they have much more love towards their Self.
21. Q: The wakeful state contains real objects, real body, real organs of sense, etc… In this state, the Self knows the real objects through the real mind, and through the real organs of sense. The Self remains the same in the Form of Awareness; and the love of all is directed towards their Self. Therefore, we have a chance to know the Self who is of the Form of Existence-Awareness-Bliss in the wakeful-state. How do we know the Self who is of same Form in the dream where everything is false?
A: What is real, and what is false? Nature of every object is the same. All these objects are known and they never know themselves. Those objects that appear to exist either in the wakeful or in the dream states –cannot transfer themselves from one state to another one. A plenty of such objects exist unitedly for the use of someone and those objects don’t remain for themselves .But, the Self exists in all these states. We cannot imagine His non-existence anywhere. His Form of Awareness remains undisturbed. None hates this Form of the Self; He is eternally the most beloved of all. Therefore, the Self is always of the Form of Existence-Awareness-Bliss.
22. Q: If the Self remains eternally in His Form, why does He obtain dream and wakeful states? Because the Self is having these two states we hesitate to tell that He always remains in the Form Not only that, we are forced to tell that the Awareness is the main Form. It is because all other forms of His vary differently and this Self exists in the form of awareness; therefore, as you have shown earlier, because of this form alone He is of the Form of Existence. And on the basis of this Form of Awareness ( Chid-Roopa ) , we can prove the Bliss of the Self; and this is because , by whose awareness we like everything, that Awareness is the dearest of all. Therefore, the Self is proved that He is the Form of Bliss. Hence, if the Awareness Form of the Self remains constantly, then only Existence-Awareness-Bliss-Form of the Self is known. But in the deep-sleep state such form doesn’t exist at all; because, there, the Self knows nothing thus, when the Self has this Awareness –Form, He gets wakeful and dream states. In the deep-sleep, the Self loses this Form of Awareness. Therefore, it is not reasonable to tell that the Self is always in the Form of Existence-Awareness-Bliss!
A: We have never told the Self who is of the Form of Existence-Awareness-Bliss obtains the wakeful and dream states. For the question, who does get the wakeful-state? We have answered that one who experiences the state alone has it.
Q: What is this? Have I not agreed that I experience the wakeful state?
A: Yes. If you agree to experience the state, let it be so.
Q: Sir, am I not the experiencer of the state?
A: Yes. Existence-Awareness-Bliss is the real Form of the experiencer, and the ‘I ‘feeling (ego) is not the real form.
Q: It means that the Existence-Awareness-Bliss-Form itself takes ego-form.
A: No. I-feeling itself is the form of ego. The Self of Existence-Awareness-Bliss –Form doesn’t have the ego-form.
Q: I don’t understand this. At first you told that I was of the form of Existence-Awareness-Bliss Self. Now , you tell that I-feeling is the ego-form and the Self doesn’t have the ego !
A: Your real Form is Existence-Awareness-Bliss and the I-feeling appears in you is the ego-form . This ego-form is called as egoism (Ahamkaara). The states appear in the egoism but your Existence-Awareness-Bliss-Form doesn’t have the states. I have not given contrary statements. This is because egoism is not your real form.
23. Q: Why not? Whenever I engage in activities then this I-feeling appears isn’t it? If this I-feeling is not my real form, then it should be seen by me as the organs of sense are seen, isn’t it?
24. Q: Then, this awareness form also is not my real one. This is because; in the deep-sleep we don’t have any type of awareness. Thus, in the deep-sleep, neither egoism nor for m of awareness is found. Therefore, I find that I don’t have any form of awareness at all.
A: This is not right. Similarly, a few Buddhists deliberated and found that they did not have any form. That dispute is called the Void Disputation (Shoonya Vaada). The void means nothing exists.
Q: If this void disputation becomes fit to the experience; why should we not accept this theory? Have you not told the experience that comes out of examining the states completely is the truth?
A: True. But the theory that you accept doesn’t become fit to the experience ; and this decision of yours has not come after the complete deliberation of the states .
Q: How is it?
A: It is because ; there is no supportive statement that tells that there is no form of awareness in the deep-sleep.
Q: Why not? If that form exists, it should appear to me. I have never seen either this form of awareness or any other form. Is this experience of mine not enough?
A: You have told that you have seen nothing. The very experience of yours clearly declares that you have the form of awareness. This is because, you reject all the objects that are seen here; and you have not rejected your Real Form of Awareness.
Q: In the deep-sleep that form of awareness is also never seen !
A: If that form of awareness is not seen , that doesn’t matter. We have not told that this Form of Awareness is an object that could be seen. We have told that the awareness is Form, that is not an object, and that illumines by itself always independently . You too have agreed to this!
Q: Have I agreed to this? Have I not told that the awareness-form doesn’t appear to me?
A: Yes. That is why , you are the form of awareness to whom the awareness-form is not seen. You tell that if any object existed it could have been seen and you have not seen such objects in the deep-sleep; then you have had the form of awareness to tell that the absence of the objects. Therefore, it is proved that the Form of Existence-Awareness-Bliss always exists.
Q: Sir, I have a doubt. You have told that the egoism is found in the wakeful and dream states; and Existence-Awareness-Bliss-Form doesn’t have these three states. And, you have shown that there is no egoism in the deep-sleep. By this, it is told that the Existence-Awareness-Bliss-Form has deep-sleep!
A: What is the deep-sleep? Nothing is seen there, isn’t it? Then how can it be a state? ‘ A patient without any disease ‘- is a meaningless statement; similarly, the statement : ‘Nothing is seen in the Self; and this is a change in the Self ‘
[ It is the experience of everyone that nothing is seen in the deep-sleep. A few Vedaantins have the opinion that the Self has a cover of the Root Ignorance ( Moolaavidya ); therefore, nothing is seen. This opinion is contrary to the commentary, reasoning ,and the experience. The exploration of the form of the root-ignorance, the evidences the disputations tell to prove the existence of that ignorance, the arguments to refute that disputation- these are very difficult to comprehend. Therefore, these aspects are not explained here, in this book. This is elaborately deliberated in ‘Shankara Siddhaanta ‘, the Kannada work and in ‘ Moolaavidyaa Niraasaa ‘ the Sanskrit work. ]
Q: Why the above statement is meaningless? The Self sees something or else in the wakeful and dream states. In the deep-sleep state He doesn’t see. Are seeing and not seeing the nature of the Self?
No. Suppose, if a few objects are placed in front of a burning lamp , it illumines them; if the objects are removed , the lamp continues to burn. In both the cases there is no difference in the illumination of the lamp. Similarly, the Self knows the non-self-objects either in the wakeful or in the dream states, and the Self doesn’t know anything in the deep-sleep; there is no special change in the awareness of the Self. Therefore, knowing and not knowing are not two natures of the Self.