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12. Q: Do body and organs of sense not exist even in the dream?

A: Neither body nor any organ   of sense of the wakeful-state exists in the dream.  Suppose,   if the very same body and organs of sense exist in both the states; the smell of the sandal paste smeared in the dream should appear in the wakeful-state.  Not  only  that  as  the  objects  of  sense ,  body,  and  of    the  dream  appear  to  be  false  in  the  wakeful-state.  This is   the experience of each and everyone.     


 [Here, we deliberate accepting the difference between dream and wakeful-state; and dreams occur due to the inclination of the wakeful-state. Many people think that this difference is true and they understand the deliberation easily. But  Sri  Gouda  Paadaacharya  has shown a grand theory that  these two states have no difference  at all  in  his  Vaitathya Prakarana. In the Vedaanta veshikaa, the Avasthaa Traya Prakriyaa is well explained in the pure Kannada language]


13. Q: Well, who does get the wakeful-state?

A: To the one who experiences the state.


Q: Do not all experience the state?

A: Yes.  Then, all get this wakeful-state.


Q: We have concluded nothing. What is the use of such deliberation?

A: No use. We don’t arrive at any conclusion. We started to conclude wrongly by questioning who gets the state; and we assumed that everyone gets the state. We never arrive at any decision from

such a deliberation.


Q: Sir, have you not misled our discussion? You have told that the one who experiences the state alone gets it.

 A: Yes.  It   is true. But, I have not told that those who experience dream will get the waking-state.  .


Q: That is also my opinion, Sir.  But, whoever experiences the dream will certainly get the waking-state; isn’t it?

A: All right. Those who appear in the dream, do they experience state?            


Q: No. What is the use of it?

A: As those who appear in the dream they belong to that state, they don’t exist apart from the state. Similarly,   those who appear in the wakeful-state belong to this state alone. It is wrong to tell that those who all appear in the wakeful-state experience that state.


Q: Then, all these people whom do we see in this wakeful-state, are they not awakened?

A: Those who appear in the dream, does everyone experience that state?


Q: Yes. I have understood .In the dream many appear to experience that state. Similarly, in the wakeful-state many   people, too, experience. Then, who is the real   experiencer   of these states?

A: Those who think that they experience the state, they alone obtain that state.


Q: Does everyone think like that?

A: Not so. Those who think alike belong to your wakeful-state. You don’t have any chance to tell that everyone experiences that state.


Q: Why not?

A: It is because that whatever you see is your wakeful-state. You have not seen either another wakeful-state,   or other   experiencers of that state. Even if you see them, they belong to your wakeful-state.


Q: All right.  Let me accept that I have this wakeful-state. In this wakeful-state, does   my   “self “exist   always?  

A: Do you question after knowing yourself?


Q: I don’t know. That is why I asked the question:  How does the Self illumine the mind?

A: Then,   listen to me.   Body, sense-organs, etc. are placed together.  As everything of a house belongs to the owner, so this body, organs of sense, etc. belong to some invisible being.  Thus, we have   to guess. In the same manner, desire, anger, etc. of the mind occur for the use of someone. That    someone is the   Self.


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