12. Q: Do body and organs of sense not exist even in the dream?
A: Neither body nor any organ of sense of the wakeful-state exists in the dream. Suppose, if the very same body and organs of sense exist in both the states; the smell of the sandal paste smeared in the dream should appear in the wakeful-state. Not only that as the objects of sense , body, and of the dream appear to be false in the wakeful-state. This is the experience of each and everyone.
[Here, we deliberate accepting the difference between dream and wakeful-state; and dreams occur due to the inclination of the wakeful-state. Many people think that this difference is true and they understand the deliberation easily. But Sri Gouda Paadaacharya has shown a grand theory that these two states have no difference at all in his Vaitathya Prakarana. In the Vedaanta veshikaa, the Avasthaa Traya Prakriyaa is well explained in the pure Kannada language]
13. Q: Well, who does get the wakeful-state?
A: To the one who experiences the state.
Q: Do not all experience the state?
A: Yes. Then, all get this wakeful-state.
Q: We have concluded nothing. What is the use of such deliberation?
A: No use. We don’t arrive at any conclusion. We started to conclude wrongly by questioning who gets the state; and we assumed that everyone gets the state. We never arrive at any decision from
such a deliberation.
Q: Sir, have you not misled our discussion? You have told that the one who experiences the state alone gets it.
A: Yes. It is true. But, I have not told that those who experience dream will get the waking-state. .
Q: That is also my opinion, Sir. But, whoever experiences the dream will certainly get the waking-state; isn’t it?
A: All right. Those who appear in the dream, do they experience state?
Q: No. What is the use of it?
A: As those who appear in the dream they belong to that state, they don’t exist apart from the state. Similarly, those who appear in the wakeful-state belong to this state alone. It is wrong to tell that those who all appear in the wakeful-state experience that state.
Q: Then, all these people whom do we see in this wakeful-state, are they not awakened?
A: Those who appear in the dream, does everyone experience that state?
Q: Yes. I have understood .In the dream many appear to experience that state. Similarly, in the wakeful-state many people, too, experience. Then, who is the real experiencer of these states?
A: Those who think that they experience the state, they alone obtain that state.
Q: Does everyone think like that?
A: Not so. Those who think alike belong to your wakeful-state. You don’t have any chance to tell that everyone experiences that state.
Q: Why not?
A: It is because that whatever you see is your wakeful-state. You have not seen either another wakeful-state, or other experiencers of that state. Even if you see them, they belong to your wakeful-state.
Q: All right. Let me accept that I have this wakeful-state. In this wakeful-state, does my “self “exist always?
A: Do you question after knowing yourself?
Q: I don’t know. That is why I asked the question: How does the Self illumine the mind?
A: Then, listen to me. Body, sense-organs, etc. are placed together. As everything of a house belongs to the owner, so this body, organs of sense, etc. belong to some invisible being. Thus, we have to guess. In the same manner, desire, anger, etc. of the mind occur for the use of someone. That someone is the Self.